Talk:Team Viewer/@comment-201.50.116.232-20150119190616/@comment-3408861-20150830005329
OK, I see your reasoning. And I've run some scenarios, to understand why my experience was differing from that reasoning. I've relabeled the two value columns on Hero Effectiveness "OFFensive VALue" and "DEFensive VALue", and explained when the two formulas are useful. Here is my reasoning now: Observe that this is formula for a given battle. Win = turns until enemy dies < turns until your team dies = "Enemy HP / (your ATK - enemy heal) < your HP / (enemy ATK - your heal)". Once AP is exhausted, "Your heal" = REC * avg. hearts / turn. The two denominators must be examined closely, in different battle scenarios. First, AxHxR formula is reasonable approximation for the team as a whole, but (perhaps surprisingly) that does not make it the best formula for finding individual heroes to add to your team. The core reason for this is that adding a hero where the team is weak adds the most value to a team; Once you've got Gaia, who is awesome in both HP and REC, adding additional heroes that are high in HP or REC makes a smaller percentage difference to the team than adding heroes high in ATK. This would be easy to see, if Team Viewer calculated a team value - not by calculating individual hero "combat values" and then summing those; rather, must be done at the team level: Sum(ATK) x Sum(HP) x Sum(Rec). Second, on any battle that is not a SOLO enemy, as soon as you knock out one enemy, the incoming DMG is less. A high ATK, combined with "prep" of fever rune + element runes, accomplishes this - and should tilt the formula towards ATK (though this is hard to quantify). This is ESPECIALLY true if the ENEMY has a HEALER: until that healer goes down, the team's survival is in doubt. This shows in the denominator "(your ATK - enemy heal)". Third, REC is really important -- but only if you can get near or above HALF the "break-even" point. As you have observed, at break-even you would last indefinitely; the denominator "(enemy ATK - REC * hearts/turn)" becomes zero or negative. A REC that good would have unlimited value. Lets examine RECs well below break-even. HALF that is "REC * hearts/turn = enemy ATK/2". Below this, REC is not as helpful (does not sway that denominator enough). This is why Tower 20 is deadly: it isn't the large HP of the dragon, it is the 9+K DMG / 2 turns = 4+K DMG/turn. Half that is 2+K DMG/turn. I don't know if it is even possible to reach REC that would heal at 2+K HP/turn, unless you have amazing luck with hearts. If you can't achieve at least that much healing, then your REC won't have much impact on that boss battle. To beat a SOLO boss with such excessive DMG, what is needed is even more excessive DMG from your team. Insanely great HP and/or REC would also work but are harder to leverage with available skills and combos; its easier to reach sky-high ATK, I think. (RECs I've achieved mostly helped get TO the Tower 20 boss battle in decent shape, with some AP left.) So, my conclusion is that putting together the best team is served by having two formulas for searching for individual heroes, depending on what you are searching for. Sorry for my rudeness in bumping your formula to the second slot on that page, without prior discussion. My initial reaction to it was that it was fundamentally wrong; now I understand why and when it is applicable. Hopefully the relabeling of the values as offense/defense works well to indicate equal importance to the two. And thanks for your patience with my mucking around in pages you have put such care into. See my paragraphs on Effectiveness page, regarding these two combat values.